America Online Apple II Art & Graphics Forum conference log of June 8, 1990 edited by Dave Seah topic: Demos Night location: AGR Conference Room --- START OF EDITED LOG --- AFC DaveS Welcome to the Apple II Art & Graphics Forum Friday Chat! AFC DaveS It's Demo Night!!! AFC DaveS Artists, Programmers and Musicians have spent many an hour AFC DaveS putting together these amazing creations of Sight and Sound, AFC DaveS just for the sole purpose of Thrilling us with a display of AFC DaveS what the Apple II is really capable of doing. Tonight we'll AFC DaveS discuss the Best, the Worst, and all the ones in between. AFC DaveS Got a favorite? Let us know about it! Do you know of a AFC DaveS Super Demo we don't have in our libraries? Speak up and AFC DaveS we'll track it down! NUCLEUS and other works by FTA have AFC DaveS opened more than a few eyes as to the hidden power in our AFC DaveS computers. More are being written every day! DON'T MISS OUT! AFC DaveS No Protocol tonight...jump right in and name your favorite! AFC DaveS If anyone would like to volunteer to be the special guest, feel free to AFC DaveS do so :) AFC BoJ The GS dealer demo sold me the computer... AFC DaveS Yep, tonight we are going to talk about everyon's favorite demos! Topino How do you become a special guest? Steamboat Volunteer BCS Frank Raise yo hand, Topino... BCS Frank and pay the guest fee. :) Ted38 Isn't that special! AFC DaveS We can start with the old, old classics...perhaps even the one AFC DaveS that sold Bo his GS :) AFC DaveS First, we can rattle off a list of demos, see how good our decrepit, AFC DaveS online memories have become since AFCship :) AFC Tosh It crashed the first GS I saw...:) Exter Don't remember seeing any demos that was memorable. AFC DaveS Exter, maybe some of these names will jog your memory :) Topino CUBINATION was/is very memorable! AFC DaveS Nucleus AFC DaveS Photonix AFC DaveS (the about screen, that is) RobertK45 who is the special guest AFC DaveS ACS Demo 88 and 89 AFC DaveS Space Harrier AFL Marty I don't know if this qualifies as a demo.... AFL Marty but that 3200 color viewer displaying the Ragnarok demo screen AFL Marty is Excellent! AFC DaveS DreamGraphics 3200 AFC DaveS Fillmaze BCS Frank Well there was the original 15 second Star Wars demo of the gs.. What promise!! AFC DaveS Forgot about that one, Frank! :) AFC DaveS Polygonia II AFC DaveS Cubination AFC DaveS The Apple IIGS Dealer Demo AFC BoJ Definately excellent, Marty! :) Exter I didn't even get to see the Apple demo. AFC DaveS Er, ah... Steamboat I like the bubbling stuff in Senseless Violence, but that doesn't qualify, rgt? AFC DaveS help me, guys :) AFC Tosh Any more? AFC DaveS We can talk about anything graphics, steamboat :) Topino How about Mr. Z's... the one with the scrolling border? AFC DaveS I liked the bubbling in SV, too! BCS Frank Steamboat, why not... it demos the gs. Steamboat ...and Fillmaze, of course. Exter Can someone send me the GS' original demo? AFC DaveS Exter: You can download the Dealer Demo online here in AGR...it's REALLY AFC DaveS big, though, so you might want to see if your dealer (hahah!) still has AFC DaveS it. Topino Yeah, right! AFC Tosh I think it took I meg to run....... Exter My dealer probably wouldn't know what I was talking about. Topino Ask him if he's got any GS's left! BCS Frank At computer shows I put up a gs with the FantaVision Jellyfish.. pulls em in fast. AFC BoJ Doesn't the one online allow for running on a single drive system, Dave? AFC DaveS That is...I beleive that the Dealer Demo is still around here somewhere. AFC DaveS It was a while ago since I uploaded it. Steamboat Speaking of dealer demos, how about the Tour of Your Apple IIgs Topino That sucks! Steamboat Yeah, but my kid likes it.... Topino Oh... enjoy it then! AFC DaveS I heard that there were two "Tour of your Apple IIGS" demos. AFC DaveS Can anyone verify that? AFC BoJ Does that black and white Tour demo still come with the GS? Topino Yes! BCS Frank And the HyperStudio and TutorTech laser disk front end demos. Steamboat I'm losing it. What where you answering, Top? AFL Marty (maybe I should upload the MultiFinder GS demo :) Eddie5150 There are two... one is the old b/w one and another that is color and really Eddie5150 quite nice for kids!:) Exter Do you remember where you put the Dealer Demo? AFC DaveS There's Multijuggle, too. AFC DaveS And of course, Ellipsoids and Jonah Stich's demos! BCS Frank MultiJuggle?? AFC DaveS Yep, that preliminary ray-traced-in-pascal demo that was uploaded here AFC DaveS a while ago. Topino DYA's demos! AFC BoJ Where in AGR, Exter? Steamboat Are those tour demos online on AOL? Exter Never mind. I found it. :) AFC BoJ :) Eddie5150 Jonah's demos are really quite nice! They even include source code for the Eddie5150 programming minded person!:) AFC BoJ Yeah, Eddie... it's nice that he likes to share :) SHERLOCK88 YOU BET EDDIE5150 AFC DaveS Jeez, there are more demos than I remembered :) AFC Tosh Jonahs on his way to challanging Mr.Z. Topino How so Tosh? AFC Tosh His scrolling is just as good. AFC DaveS I recently took a look at the ACS 87 demo disk, which has a collection AFC DaveS of Mr. Z animated screens on it. It's neat that Jonah's stuff can actually AFC DaveS be quit from! AFC Tosh The speed is impressive. AFL Marty Oops... did you mention Photonix? AFC DaveS Yep, Marty! Topino Wait till Jason Andersen starts putting some stuff on! BCS Frank I love the graduaated font coloring in the ACS demo... AFC Tosh Yep! AFC DaveS :) Exter AFC DaveS Who is Jason Andersen? Topino DG dude! [DG = DreamGraphics] BCS Frank Who is Tosh? BCS Frank :) Topino :) AFC DaveS :) AFC Tosh :( BCS Frank (: Topino LOL! Exter Unless some kind soul should want to send it to me..... :) AFL Marty Tosh is famous. Topino Very famous! BCS Frank oh... him. AFL Marty "HyperStudio Clip-Art Volume 1" by Donald McIntosh. Topino Everyone buy Tosh's HyperStudio clip art disk... it's awesome! AFC DaveS Anyone have a vote for the Best All Time IIGS demo? AFC DaveS Hi Michael! AFC BoJ Nucleus. AFC Tosh Nucleus.. Michael515 Nucleus Topino Nucleus! Exter Never seen it. Eddie5150 Nucleus. BCS Frank Yes... best would be the demo for HyperCard-gs!!! BCS Frank I want it!! BCS Frank Please! Topino What Exter? AFC BoJ You NEED to get it, Exter! :) Exter Geez, I'm behind the times. Steamboat Certainly Nucleus is famous!!! AFC Tosh What???? Exter? Michael515 (Is there going to be another AGR contest anytime soon??) AFC Tosh Hope so Michael. :) AFC DaveS I dunno, Michael...AFL Scott gets to decide those things :) Topino Go now Exter! AFC DaveS It turned the IIGS world upside down, Exter :) Steamboat Nucleus or the contest? [Nucleus - ed] Exter I'm going, I'm going..... :) Topino Even my dealer saw it with mouth wide open ;) AFL Marty Gee Dave... it's been 2 whole months since you had one :) AFC DaveS Aw...the more contests the merrier! :) AFC DaveS Is there a ROM3 version of Nucleus on AO anywhere? AFC Tosh It exists I've heard.... Steamboat Heck, contest was as well know as the exploding chlorine Coca-Colas. Exter Okay, which one of the five do I want? AFC Tosh Rom 3 Nucleus is on the NET AFC DaveS I believe it was uploaded on USENET. AFC DaveS What Tosh said. :) BCS Frank No telling WHAT a ROM3 version of Nucleus mught do... something new no doubt. AFC DaveS I've never tried running Nucleus on a ROM3, though I heard that it crashes AFC DaveS or hangs at the boot screen. Topino There's a new version! Exter I think I'll d/l it tommorrow. AFC BoJ Yes... there's a ROM3 version of Nucleus. RobertK45 i downloaded it from the gaming forum i think because i have rom 03 it works. Michael515 Any word on Dream Graphics release date? AFC DaveS Topino might know... Topino Soon, soon, soon! AFC Tosh Good question Michael...? Topino OK guys, here's a ? for all of you! Exter Hmm, better spend more time getting demos. :) AFC DaveS Ok...spill it, Topino! Topino Here goes... Topino How many of you would call Jason and buy a copy of DG in its present form... Topino and he'll get you updates as he makes them? AFC DaveS In demo form? :) Michael515 what is it's current form?? AFC DaveS And how much? Topino 3200 color editor, load and save all formats Topino $50 Michael515 not if it was only an editor. Topino It will be a FULL paint program AFC DaveS We're talking about Demos and Flashy Cool Graphics Stuff, MissMatch :) AFC Tosh Hey Scott! Michael515 oh. in that case, I'd get it if it had a gradient palette fill mode. AFL Scott Hi! I'm only here for a minute... Topino IT WILL HAVE EVERYTHING! MaryJ7 Will it be copy protected, and can I run it on a hard drive? AFC Tosh Welcome....Demo's!! AFC DaveS Has everyone here checked out the DreamGraphics Demo in our library? Michael515 Is there gonna be a new contest soon Scott? MissMatch How about being able to mix colors like in oil painting? Topino Haven't decided yet... MissMatch I would buy it then for $50. AFC BoJ I have, Dave. It's really cool. Exter Nope. Michael515 Yeah, I'd buy it. AFC DaveS There are two pictures uploaded that were created with it...one of a future AFC DaveS game screen, and one of Paula Abdul. BCS Frank :) Topino That right Dave! Topino I'm working on some 3200 pics myself! AFC DaveS Then there is there is a "DreamGraphics" advertisment-type thing, with AFC DaveS a nice digitized rhythm accompanying it. AFL Scott The next contest will be in about three months. Michael515 !! 3 months? SHERLOCK88 I HATE HER AFC DaveS Paula's my girl! :) Topino Mine too! AFC BoJ No, she's mine! AFL Scott (BTW, AFC's are running tonight's show, so I'm not here) GreyD MINE!!!!! Topino Ok, we'll share! MissMatch Topino, is Jason thinking of writing a new graphic type program? BCS Frank Too bad, Scott.. it's a good show. :) MissMatch Nuzz Topino! How reliable is Jason regarding producing a finished product. Topino Very... in my opinion... Topino I get updates as soon as he gits em out :) AFC DaveS (it's tough typing this fast :) Topino New... let's finish DG and then we'll do other things! GreyD SHARING GAWD!!! AFC DaveS And how is the color mixing? Topino Dave... we're working on that... AFC DaveS MissMatch...how does one mix oils? AFC DaveS I've never had the opportunity to play with them :( AFC Tosh Little of this...then a little of that. AFC DaveS Is there a special trick? MissMatch For example: Take yellow and mix with blue to get green...add some white and MissMatch get lighter green...etc. AFC DaveS Is it straight subtractive color mixing? SHERLOCK88 your right afc tosh Michael515 What does that have to do with oils? Exter Which is the best 3200 viewer? AFC DaveS BTW, Topino, make sure HSV color editing is supported. [HSV = Hue, Saturation, Value...supported by DeluxePaint II] Topino It will be (I think) AFC BoJ I like Jonah's. Topino I haven't gotten an update because I am running my GS with only 256k :( AFC DaveS Jonah Stich recently uploaded a GS/OS viewer, Exter. MissMatch Well, actually it is with any medium...oil paints, watercolours, pastels, etc. AFC Tosh I like Jonahs too....Desktop. AFC DaveS It's right here in the AGR libs, too...Jonah's getting pretty hot at AFC DaveS programing :) Topino Desktop... DG is Desktop! Exter Check. Lemme look around. AFC DaveS I see, MissMatch...thanks for enlightening me! BCS Frank ... stained glass gets a little different... AFC Tosh Great! Topino. MissMatch You're welcome, Dave. I would like to see that capability in a paint program MissMatch for the GS... hint, hint! SHERLOCK88 right frank Topino Thre will be built in palettes for chrome, gold, silver, and others! AFC Tosh That's great....those are hard to mix.... AFC Tosh They take up a lot of shades for that metalic look. AFC Tosh Gold silver...etc. AFC DaveS Stained Glass? Topino stained glass? BCS Frank So, with 32 hundred colors, why no ultraviolet? Topino uv? AFC DaveS I'm sure you're getting plenty of UV just by sitting in front of your AFC DaveS monitor, Frank :) BCS Frank Dave..."Tan while you Scan, with the new UV Sun Monitor 3000..." MissMatch BTW, who is in charge this evening? Michael515 the AFCs AFC DaveS AFC Moe, AFC Larry, and AFC Curly, MissMatch! :) Exter :) AFC Tosh :( AFC Tosh It takes up alot of a palette to do a metallic look.... Topino It's up to you Tosh. If you're doing small objects you really don't need many Topino shades. But if you do big objects and don't wana waste many colors, Topino try dithering carefully! BCS Frank Better yet, who gets to edit this "log?" AFC DaveS It's my turn this week (groan:) AFL Marty GS+ magazine's disk did a tutorial on doing pics with metallic look. AFC Tosh I read that Marty....It was quite Good! AFC DaveS How does the tutorial rate on the AFL Marty Scale of Excellence? AFL Marty Hard to say... AFL Marty I had trouble with it. BCS Frank Broderbond seems to do ok with their 3 gold crown logo. AFC Tosh Topino...thats where 256 and 3200 will really be great! Topino Marty, GS+ is awesome. Metallic lesson is VERY good :) Michael515 hmmm what kinds of things do the GS+ disks have on them? AFL Marty The GS+ disks have programs (NDAs), source code... MissMatch That's okay AFC's....we AMS people get our 'job' in August! AFC DaveS LOL! Good luck, MissMatch! AFC DaveS My fingers are falling off! :) AFC DaveS You can really make metallic things look nice just by putting some fast AFC DaveS falloff colors on the edges of your object, then working the highlights. AFC DaveS Keep a strongly-directional light in mind, and guess from that. AFL Marty I want to go through it again (maybe two more times)... I'm sure I AFL Marty overlooked something. AFC Tosh Little Highlight Stars on the edges..... SHERLOCK88 go on marty AFC DaveS Oooh...stars! I haven't tried putting those in a while. AFC DaveS One of the ACS demos uses them alot, I think...the Photonix AFC DaveS graphics puts a small one on the edges. AFC DaveS Adds a nice sparkly effect :) Topino DP II's smoothing option does a great job in metallic look AFL Marty ...tutorials like the one I mentioned... and graphics files showing AFL Marty what your graphic should look like at various stages of the tutorial. AFC Tosh Question....Has anyone found the Hidden Docs in Photonix??? AFC DaveS That sounds pretty cool, Marty. Topino We got that for the Paula 3200 pic (many levels) AFL Marty I think my problem may be that I'm not very familiar with the DP II tools. AFC Tosh Same here Marty. Topino DP II tools are great Marty! AFL Marty I use PWG mostly. AFC DaveS The DPII tools are really well integrated, IMHO. Topino I don't like PWG :( AFL Marty I'm sure they are. I just haven't learned them yet. MissMatch Do you all feel that DP is better than PWG? AFC Tosh ....................................................Nope AFC DaveS Er, ah...the AFCs are split on this matter :) Topino <--- I do! AFC BoJ Personally, I like DPII. But, I don't use PWG at all. AFC DaveS If you use DP a lot, you can really do things FAST with it. Eddie5150 I think they both have their place... Each has features that the other doesn't Eddie5150 the trick is to use them both and find out what you can cull from each. AFC BoJ True, Eddie. AFL Marty Hard for me to say MissMatch. I use PWG because it's the program I got AFL Marty first. AFL Marty Plus it lets me do those 320-640 mode conversions. Topino I use both... though I'll admit I haven't learned all commands in PWG :( Nuzz <---Drawings look like Kindergarden work AFC DaveS PWG is easier to learn, and a wee bit more powerful in terms of canned AFC DaveS features. I think DP II offers better drawing control on the "very detailed" AFC DaveS level. Topino Anyone use the perspective tool in DP... SLOOOOOOOOOOW! AFC Tosh And PWG is very nice to 640 Graphics. Topino Yes Tosh Topino Betcha it came in handy with your clip art Tosh! :) MissMatch Is DP still available? I too got PWG first, and haven't taken advantage of all MissMatch its utilities, etc. AFC DaveS Good point, Marty AFC Tosh A wee bit. :) Topino Yes, DP II is available! AFC DaveS DP II is still available through mail order...I even see it at software AFC DaveS stores! AFC BoJ Yup, Joyce. And Program's Plus has it cheap! :) AFC DaveS Mail order is much cheaper. Topino I have seen it recently in mail order places! AFL Marty By the way, those graphics are most excellent, Tosh! Topino Yeah Tosh! AFC BoJ BTW, I find that GS paint programs are great when 'demoing' your GS to friends! AFC Tosh Thanks Marty.....It was nothin.... AFL Marty For you maybe. Eddie5150 Tosh deserves a medal for the Clip-Art disk! MissMatch He sure does, Eddie. AFC Tosh GAG MissMatch What about Paintworks Plus...I have that too (won it)..but haven't used it? AFC DaveS Way to go Tosh! :) AFC BoJ ()()()() Don! AFL Marty My drawings look like I held the mouse in my mouth. AFC DaveS PaintWorks Plus is comparable to the very first MacPaint...it's sort of AFC DaveS clunky to use, at least for me. AFL Marty I dumped PaintWorks Plus when I upgraded to PWG. AFC Tosh Mouth Mouse...no theres a concept! MissMatch Maybe I will give it away at one of our user group meetings :) Topino I think you should call LRO computers if you want anything! Topino So, how many will get DG? AFL Marty Speaking of which... is DreamGraphics out yet? MissMatch Like most of you, I have all these neat programs and don't know any of them MissMatch 65%!!! Topino It will be! AFC DaveS I might sit on it for a while, Topino...if the reviews are good, I'll AFC DaveS spring for it. AFC DaveS I don't dare buy Color+ because no one has posted a review on it. Topino $50 plus free upgrades as they become available! BurgerBill Color + BurgerBill ? Topino Color + author is Ingenuity's engineer! Eddie5150 He's also their tech support guy. AFC BoJ Bachir's paint program. AFC Tosh Thats another I want. BurgerBill ok MissMatch I have their demo. AFC DaveS I've checked the demo out, too. AFC Tosh The animation sounds Great. BurgerBill I just hope it uses GS/OS printer drivers. Topino Animation... DG will have some GREAT animnation! AFL Marty It will let me do colors like those in the demo? Nuzz Is he the guy in the big hat :) AFC DaveS DG will do animation? In that case, I'm much more interested! AFC DaveS Are you a member of the Guild Michael? Topino We have something that works awesome! Michael515 so there's no definate release date for DG? (I was gone...) AFL Marty Who is "we"? Topino I haven't seen it because I only got 256k :( AFC DaveS What? AFC DaveS Only 256K? BCS Frank 256K? Sesame Street has a nice coloring program that'll run on that... :) Topino We=DreamWorld ! AFC Tosh Save those nickels Top Michael515 uhh I said "yah" in the guild folder so...I guess I am :) Coral Which Guild APW? Topino Yeah, my Ram card is pupp! AFL Marty You are part of DreamWorld, Topino? Topino Exclusive beta tester and personal friend of the guys! ;) Topino Marty! Michael515 AGR Guild. AFC DaveS The AGR Art Guild, Coral...an artist's support group that we're hoping AFC DaveS will flourish. Topino AE has messed up in shipping and I'll be out of 3 megs for 1 week :( sigh... AFC DaveS Of course, I've been a lazy cuss and haven't been pushing it enough :) Coral Is there more information about AGR is it a graphics interest guild Michael515 You're in the AGR Zone... AFC BoJ There IS an AGR Artist's Guild starting up, Coral :) AFC DaveS AGR is here, Coral! = Apple II ARt & Graphics Forum. AFC DaveS You can read about it in "Let's Discuss/IIGS Paint Graphics"...note AFC DaveS that the guild isn't limited to GS...all forms of graphics expression AFC DaveS on any APple iI is welcome! :) Topino A very creative ZONE! AFC Tosh No Fee to Join....You're already a member! Topino Can I be one too ? AFC DaveS Sure, Topino! AFC DaveS The more the merrier :) BCS Frank What about the Apple III folk? AFL Marty As long as it's a normal GS application and isn't copy protected... AFL Marty I'd buy it for $50. Topino Thanx! Coral I have a GS very interested in graphics. AFC DaveS Check out the Guild folders in the aforementioned folder. Michael515 I could do a lot more in terms of painting with my GS if only I could find a Michael515 paint program like PaintWorks Gold that lets you have 256 colors! Topino The number is 1-319-354-7959 call Jason NOW! We need your support! AFL Marty Call him for what? I thought DG wasn't available yet. Michael515 ...and one with gradient fills/palettes! AFC DaveS We'd love to have ya, Coral! AFC DaveS The only requirement is your interest :) AFC Tosh We all wish that Michael.... AFC Tosh Maybe DG or Color+ will be just that! Topino Everyone is welcome to AGR, right guys? Michael515 Does Color+ have gradient fills? AFC DaveS *chorus* Yeah! AFC Tosh Absolootly MissMatch Topino, isn't Jason still living in Colorado? Topino If everythinh goes as planed DG will top DP II and PWG by a mile! BCS Frank If everything went as planned we'd be in the British Empire! AFC DaveS BTW, will DG be able to handle >64K sized pictures? Topino 64k? AFC DaveS Yes...you know how you can't have really big pictures with most AFC DaveS IIGS Paintprograms...I think MiniPaint is the only one that can have AFC DaveS BIG pictures. Topino Call him to get what he's got and free upgrades as they become available AFL Marty So I -can- get DG now? Topino As is...yes! Michael515 really?? for $50? Topino Frank, have some hope! AFL Marty In that case, I'll call. AFC Tosh Is the number Posted in the Folder? MissMatch Frank, you'be been seeing too much of Tim!!! Topino Yes Mike! Eddie5150 Question is.. Does it work? Topino It's on the demo! AFL Marty 1-319-354-7959 Michael515 what's the # again? BCS Frank :) AFC DaveS Is there a money-back guarantee? AFL Marty (I wrote it down :) Topino Does it work... have you seen the Paula, Ragnarok, Task Force pics? BCS Frank Log, Marty... use the log! AFL Marty Money is no object, Dave :) Michael515 Will there be free upgrades later? Topino Yes, Mike! AFC Tosh Thanks Marty :) Topino Dave, ask Jason! AFC DaveS Task Force pictures were edited with this program? Topino YES! Eddie5150 Yes. I have. They can only use 16 palettes and can be done with CheapPaint. Michael515 Once again, what can the current version of DG do? Topino Load, save, edit colors... the rest I can't say. Only Jason can (if he wants) AFL Marty The thing that sold me was the Ragnarok demo picture. Michael515 same here AFC DaveS Will we get a free tube of didi-seven (a $9.95 value)? :) AFL Marty And a free bottle of Auri, Dave :) Michael515 ahhaha Erik Von H What R U talking about? Is this all Apple ][ graphics? GS stuff? Topino That will be a game by DreaWorld... watch out these guys are HOT! AFC Tosh Great Shadow work in that Screeen! AFL Marty And the new viewer... the other one just made my GS burp. AFC DaveS This is all A2 graphics...we're talking about DreamGraphics, AFC DaveS an upcoming 3200 color paint program for the IIGS Topino YEAH! Michael515 Ever think of setting up an 800 number for orders? long distance can kill :) Topino Ragnarok will be awesome! Topino We do enough calling of our own... phone bill is huge :( AFL Marty 1-319-354-7959 AFL Marty operators are standing by ;) Topino Everyone write that down! Topino Tell Jason that I sent ya! Michael515 You must be their rep then? Topino Me rep? No, supporter till death ! Erik Von H I would love 2 B able 2 edit Giffs at the Pixel level on the ][ with scrolling. Topino I heard of a 3200 color Giffer! AFC DaveS Apple ][ Plus, or //e. or IIGS, Erik? Eddie5150 GIF's only support 256 colors. Topino Currently! Erik Von H ][c+. Unforunatly the 16 color limit is such a problem. AFL Marty I should think it would be a BIG problem in the case of a 256 color pic. Topino Very BIG Marty! ;) Topino Where is DYA Matt, he just did a nice demo! Erik Von H I wonder if a true color card 24 bit 8 red,green & blue will ever B possible? Erik Von H In theory some great hardware is possible 4 the 13" mac type monitors. Topino For the GS Erik? AFC Tosh Well Erik.....TurboRez IS possible and Alive...so far. Topino Anything is possible with the right engineering and an unsoldered VGC chip ;) Topino TurboRez had a problem with Rom 3 :( Topino because VGC was soldered AFC DaveS Anything is possible, Erik...it's just who will support it. Erik Von H The price of VRAMS has dropped N the past year from $70 to $20 per meg! Erik Von H No the Brooktree Video Dac like the MacIIs use is the heart of video! Topino So, who wins the best demo award? AFC DaveS $20 per meg? Are you sure? AFC DaveS Nucleus, I think. AFC DaveS The brooktree video DAC! I've been trying to find info on that! Erik Von H Yeah but thats industry price for the Nec 2774 512x512x4. Erik Von H Yeah I got the DATA book at work. They R great. Just give it data & clk on bus --- END OF LOG --- This transcript is copyright (c) 1990 by NoseWorks, Inc. It may be uploaded to any information service/BBS provided that it is unedited.